What's Left of Maplewood (MN)

We can't draw, so we are left with verbal cartoons about Maplewood city politics.

Wednesday, January 17, 2007

Betrayal

In the comments of a thread below, our frequent visitor LookingNorth shared a disturbing confession:

PS: Yes, it kills me now to say it. I did vote for Hjelle and Cave. Go ahead Frostbrand and Drawnleftward, ban me from the blog or flog me publically if you like. I probably deserve it.

Neighbor, all joking aside, I don't think you need to worry about drawnLeftward and I doing either one of those things.

Some people, our troll being a convenient example, see politics as a matter of picking a team and then supporting and defending them, even when doing so becomes ludicrous, illogical, and self-contradictory — as it so often has this past year in Maplewood. In their way of thinking, specific issues are really beside the point. The overarching strategy is to separate "us" from "them," and then use that division to push the interests of "us" at the expense of "them.” Thus we see the Longrista troll continually trying to unify critics of Longrie/Cave/Hjelle under a label like "Rossbachians," and telling us that the political victors deserve all the spoils they can take for themselves and their loyalists.

Reality is not so simple. Critics of this city council majority come from all over the political spectrum. I am sure they do NOT have unified views on the many of the specific issues before Maplewood. (Compare the voting correlation of Juenemann and Rossbach to the correlations between members of the Gang of Three, for example.) It's even less likely that they have monolithic views on politics in the world beyond Maplewood city limits.

What the critics do have in common is that they see that the institution of city government is being destroyed, and they are concerned about the process of governance and, in short, the rule of law. The rules by which the city is supposed to govern itself are being ignored and undermined, in big ways and small. We've spent a lot of words in this blog talking about the specific examples.

There's another way of looking at politics, which is to see it as a process of mediating the different and sometimes conflicting interests of citizens. In this point of view, it's not absurd to provide help to someone you know voted against you, or vice versa; nor is it crazy to take a stand against someone's position on one issue, while supporting them on another. Whether you are concerned about lowering taxes, or preserving open space, or encouraging redevelopment, or hiring more police, or reducing the city's payroll — whatever the specific ways that you think the common good can be served — you can unite with people who strongly disagree with your particular goals or priorities when it comes to supporting a framework of governance that is open, inclusive, and accountable.

I wasn't watching that closely at the time, but I don't think the Longrista campaign literature highlighted their wish to dismantle the city staff, ignore state laws they didn't like (such as the Police Civil Service Commission statutes or the open meeting law), pursue personal grudges at taxpayer expense (including the taxpayers of other communities, whose insurance premiums are paying the League of Minnesota Cities' lawyers to defend cases the judges have told us the city will lose), give us the second highest levy increase in the past decade, etc. I mean, it's one thing to vote for Cave because you think she likes preserving parks; it's another to do so knowing that she thought the city council should just ignore state laws that she finds inconvenient.

And how could you know? If someone had told you in late October of 2005 that what we saw in 2006 was Diana Longrie's idea of good governance, would you even have believed it? I don't think I would have.

I think there's a growing number of Maplewood residents who feel a particular bitterness about the state of the city, like LookingNorth — the bitterness of betrayal, of being delivered goods that were not what they thought they were ordering.

18 Comments:

  • At 11:42 PM, Blogger Frostbrand said…

    Just to start the comments off in this thread with an aside...

    I think it's interesting that we only have one pro-Longrie commenter, among hundreds of regular visitors and many regular commenters. Yep. I've been saving the logs, and all the pro-Longrista comments in the last month are actually just one person.

    (The rest of us have debated whether the single pro-Gang of Three voice might be Longrie herself, her husband, Erik Hjelle, or perhaps the ethically challenged and generally kooky former mayor of Roseville, Kycz-whatshisface.)

    Anyhow, if you're new here, it's just something to be aware of.

     
  • At 3:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    So let's see... we have larry running the laptop from the audience at the council meeting, and we have curly and moe running static on the blog. Sounds like a large coalition.

    Oh, that's right, I forgot about Butch, Wheezer, Spanky, and Buckwheat running the save maplewood website.

    What a crew... Really representative of Maplewood.

     
  • At 8:45 AM, Blogger Frostbrand said…

    3:19 AM, right on time! :)

     
  • At 9:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What's the matter, Troll? Feeling a little lonely?

     
  • At 10:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Troll:

    Funny how you chide the posters on this blog for name calling and now you have stooped to our level. Or is it that you finally get the spirit of the board?

    By the way...

    We are all still on the edge of our seats waiting for you to prove to us that the the "2007 Property Tax Decrease" headline is true. Are you still busy compiling your "facts"?

     
  • At 10:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Frostbrand:

    "all the pro-Longrista comments in the last month are actually just one person."

    Maybe hjelle, cave, super-manager and perhaps the other lackeys are all over at the longie mansion reading & responding to the blog from the one IP address and plotting their next move.

    "There's no open meeting law violation here! We are all open...Open to running the city the way diana wants it run."

     
  • At 11:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    From Anonymous:

    "So let's see... we have larry running the laptop from the audience at the council meeting, and we have curly and moe running static on the blog. Sounds like a large coalition.

    Oh, that's right, I forgot about Butch, Wheezer, Spanky, and Buckwheat running the save maplewood website.

    What a crew... Really representative of Maplewood. "

    Let's not forget myself, a regular visitor, my daycare provider a regular follower of City government, plus 4 parents in the same daycare (who also live in Mapleweird), who are very concerned about the direction the City is heading.

    Troll seems to forget that the people have a voice, and are communicating to others to be more diligent in monitoring what is going in Maplewood. Rest assured, we're here, we're watching, and we are most definitely pissed.

     
  • At 12:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ahhhhh!

    I can hardly wait for this year's election. This is one year when I actually look forward to some mudslinging. It's gonna be fun!

     
  • At 12:32 PM, Blogger drawnLeftward said…

    Throat cramming adds to the crowd of people who feel betrayed. Can you say conservation easement? Probably not while its being crammed down your throat.

    Wouldn't it be more fun to have a public debate to clear up what the problem is and what the possible solutions are?

    I can live with your solution even if I don't like it as long as I am convinced you thought about my needs in the process. Wouldn't hurt to agree there was a problem in the first place.

     
  • At 2:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I apologize for the name calling. I promise to try my best not to stoop to the levels of the other people around here. Problem is that the stink kind of rub off when you hang around this board long enough.

    I never said that I was going to prove the property tax decrease headline. I just pointed out several scenarios which could easily make it true. I'm not the one complaining about the headline enough to scan it in and post it on this blog.

    Funny how we complain that the city is being run how Diana wants it to be. Last time I checked, didn't she win the election? Doesn't all of her decisions require support of a majority of elected officials? Let's not pretend that the election didn't happen.

    While there might be larry, moe, and curly on the one side, let's not forget the few thousand people who are "pissed" and got Longrie, Cave, and Hjelle in by reasonable margins. Let's not forget that some of these people have come to public comment to support the three. Let's not forget that Flister was shown the door by 10-15 people at the last Mayor's Forum?

    Judging from the last editorials I read in the paper, people are watching, and some are not pleased with the attacks on those who were legitimately elected in the last election, and are carrying out their duties.

    Yes there could be a public debate to clear up what the problems are, but it would produce no fruit. The biggest problems I see are personalities. Those can't be worked out. Second, I see people in the public who want to micromanage the city. They just don't buy into this representative democracy that we have in our city. They don't buy into the concept that we elect people and they carry out what they think is right, and we hold a referendum on each of their individual actions every 4 years. Again, this isn't something that can be worked through.

    One more thing that makes this hard to work through, is that the biggest complainers, Rossbach and Jueneman, never come forward with their plan. Yes they complain about the budget, they complain about this and that. What they don't offer 99% of the time is a plan. I challenge these people for once to put a plan on the table for a particular issue. It is easy to dismiss the complainers. It is much more difficult to dismiss people who put forward viable plans and presentations on the table. Often times, I think that Rossbach and Jueneman vote no or complain because is is easier. Fact is, it takes a lot more work to bring forward ideas than it does to complain. Again, if they don't want to put any effort in, then how can you have discussions to resolve issues.

    Being in the minority is a choice which is knowingly being made by Rossbach and Jueneman. They can choose to be in the majority on many issues if they want.

     
  • At 3:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Being in the minority is a choice which is knowingly being made by Rossbach and Jueneman. They can choose to be in the majority on many issues if they want."

    Translation - They should just meekly follow diana like cave.

    I'm sure any plan that they would try to bring forward would get squashed. Rossbach has tried to speak at various meetings and diana does not let him. What was the comment from hjelle about the midnight appointment? It doesn't really matter if Rossbach is around because the vote will be 3-2 anyway (paraphrasing). This shows how willing they are to allow others to even have a plan.

    You are really something else, troll.

     
  • At 3:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Troll:

    You're a simpleton.

    "...let's not forget the few thousand people who are "pissed" and got Longrie, Cave, and Hjelle in by reasonable margins."

    Unfortunately, I've talked with 2,999 of those few thousand. All of them are like me. They feel used. Like a dirty condom. Each and every one of them would change their vote back today if they had the chance.

     
  • At 3:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "...people are watching, and some are not pleased with the attacks on those who were legitimately elected in the last election..."

    Heaven forbid we criticize their gods...

     
  • At 4:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "They just don't buy into this representative democracy that we have in our city. They don't buy into the concept that we elect people and they carry out what they think is right, and we hold a referendum on each of their individual actions every 4 years."

    You piss ant!

    I fully buy in if it truly representative. I don't buy in when you define representative as follows...

    representative = revenge
    representative = ignore the spirit of the law

    I can hardly wait for the referendum!

     
  • At 5:45 PM, Blogger Frostbrand said…

    > I never said that I was going to
    > prove the property tax decrease
    > headline. I just pointed out several
    > scenarios which could easily make it
    > true.

    Here we see a recurrent theme in your comments.

    Some of us put some time and effort into researching facts about what is going on in Maplewood.

    You respond with hypotheticals, and then say that you can't be bothered to prove anything. It's enough for you to imagine possible scenarios that would support your point of view.

    A great example was when I spent some serious time quantifying the voting patterns of Rebecca Cave. You responded with a set of numbers that you simply made up, and presented to us to accept as though your imagination has the same truth-value as objective reality.

    For that matter, you have a proven history of making up other numbers (like your claim about double-digit tax increases over the past five years, which you injected as presumed fact into Wikipedia), which match up with your pre-existing point of view about Maplewood, but turn out to be completely contradicted by facts easily available in the public record.

    So to borrow a page from your playbook, let me say that I believe you are a career criminal. I really don't have time to research this or "prove" it, and actually I don't even know your name. However, I can imagine and describe several scenarios that would easily make this belief true. For example, what if you spent several years leading an identity theft ring, forging social security cards for illegal immigrants and known terrorists, and fraudulently obtaining credit cards to support your own sick, illegal vices? Or perhaps you have a long history of abducting happy, healthy American children and selling them into slave-labor sweatshops just over the border in Canada. I don't even know what you look like, and yet I can easily imagine you clubbing puppies and baby harp seal. The point is, I can suggest several scenarios which would easily make it true that you are a career criminal. In fact, the more I think about the things you might have done, the more I wonder if you are not just a criminal, but that you actually hate America?

    So when people consider what you write here, dear troll, they should really ask themselves, "Why would I believe anything that a career criminal, who HATES AMERICA, tells me?" and think about all the horrible things you may have done which, were they true, would make that an accurate description of you.

    I'm sure it would be great if we just ran city government in this manner. Think of all the costly staff hours we could save if they just gave the council reports filled with things they imagine might be true; and that, were they true, would support whatever Queen Diana wanted to do in the first place.

    And about those unspeakable crimes -- you should be ashamed of yourself!

     
  • At 6:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I never knew that raising examples of how the levy could be raised, while taxes are lowered, could lead to anger management problems on the part of others. Sincerely, Trollette.

     
  • At 9:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Our troll says ..."One more thing that makes this hard to work through, is that the biggest complainers, Rossbach and Jueneman, never come forward with their plan. Yes they complain about the budget, they complain about this and that. What they don't offer 99% of the time is a plan."

    1) How can they be expected to come up with alternate solutions to the budget fiasco when it was presented to them at the last possible minute and with very sketchy details?

    2) IT'S NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO PREPARE THE BUDGET! That's the job of a COMPETENT city manager - which we do not have!

    3) How can they be expected to come up with a plan to things that aren't on the agenda? I'm talking about Hjelle's stunt at 2:00 in the morning to hire Copeland.

    4) Anytime Jueneman asks Copeland a question, he talks a lot but doesn't answer the question. It's hard to come up with an alternative solution when you are surrounded by idiots who can not give you the information you need to make any type of informed decision.

     
  • At 10:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Sorry, Troll, but no anger management problems here. Just a rightious rage at how royally screwed we've become due to the terrible trio and their hired hand.
    If people take umbrage to you trying (and failing) to defend them, well, what did you expect?

     

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